Comments on: Licensed Games I’d Want to Work On – Part 2: Silence of the Lambs http://www.binarycreativity.com/2007/01/22/licensed-games-id-want-to-work-on-%e2%80%93-part-2-silence-of-the-lambs/ Matt Gilgenbach's blog on game development and creativity through this nascent medium of self expression. Mon, 19 Sep 2011 05:22:03 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.1 By: Matt http://www.binarycreativity.com/2007/01/22/licensed-games-id-want-to-work-on-%e2%80%93-part-2-silence-of-the-lambs/#comment-102 Matt Wed, 31 Jan 2007 03:14:50 +0000 http://www.binarycreativity.com/2007/01/22/licensed-games-id-want-to-work-on-%e2%80%93-part-2-silence-of-the-lambs/#comment-102 Paul - What's wrong with the idea of having a computer spontaneously invent backstory? In improv theater, working off of other actors creative input only makes the story more interesting. If all the characters are pre-made, then you will get a similar experience every time you place. If in Facade, one time you play being mean to Grace, maybe she will mention something about how you previously dated, and your relationship went sour. If I were playing, and I didn't think of that twist, I would really enjoy that all of a sudden my role in the interactive drama changed, and I'd have to work from that. If I were playing a character that was trying to seduce Grace and break off the marriage, it would be cool to find out that Grace's character always had feelings for me. What's bad about that? To me, I think it only makes the interactive drama feel more interactive. If you are playing through and there are only a few ranges of reactions the characters can have despite wildly differing characters that you choose to play, that makes it feel less interactive. When I was playing the demo of Facade and trying to seduce Grace, I felt like my input was largely ignored because the designers didn't think of that. (Although this could be addressed in the full game) If the computer could somehow creatively come up with stories to explain the current situation, that would be an amazing leap forward in interactive entertainment. Sadly, I think that leap forward is far away. Computers are the least creative entities in existence. The only way to get them do do something truly random is by feeding them outside input. (For an interesting way to get a truly random number, check out random.org's explanation http://www.random.org/essay.html) If a computer can't come up with a random number, how can it creatively co-author a story? If that is possible, that technology seems quite distant. Another problem with it is what if the stories the computer came up with were uninteresting? One would have to have some metric to tell the computer what an “interesting” story is. That in and of itself is a difficult problem. Perhaps if the computer could just do more of the leg work to achieve the story ideas – that would be good enough. For example, if the developer put in some interesting story ideas (and they'd have to put in quite a lot of them) and the computer could effectively choose which one would best fit the situation, that would be a real breakthrough in artificial intelligence. Perhaps that's what the Facade developers are going for, but from what I saw, they haven't gotten there yet (and again, I haven't gotten a chance to play the full game). I'm planning on writing some thoughts on a Philip K. Dick novel adaptation next. Paul – What’s wrong with the idea of having a computer spontaneously invent backstory? In improv theater, working off of other actors creative input only makes the story more interesting. If all the characters are pre-made, then you will get a similar experience every time you place. If in Facade, one time you play being mean to Grace, maybe she will mention something about how you previously dated, and your relationship went sour. If I were playing, and I didn’t think of that twist, I would really enjoy that all of a sudden my role in the interactive drama changed, and I’d have to work from that. If I were playing a character that was trying to seduce Grace and break off the marriage, it would be cool to find out that Grace’s character always had feelings for me. What’s bad about that? To me, I think it only makes the interactive drama feel more interactive. If you are playing through and there are only a few ranges of reactions the characters can have despite wildly differing characters that you choose to play, that makes it feel less interactive. When I was playing the demo of Facade and trying to seduce Grace, I felt like my input was largely ignored because the designers didn’t think of that. (Although this could be addressed in the full game) If the computer could somehow creatively come up with stories to explain the current situation, that would be an amazing leap forward in interactive entertainment. Sadly, I think that leap forward is far away. Computers are the least creative entities in existence. The only way to get them do do something truly random is by feeding them outside input. (For an interesting way to get a truly random number, check out random.org’s explanation http://www.random.org/essay.html) If a computer can’t come up with a random number, how can it creatively co-author a story? If that is possible, that technology seems quite distant. Another problem with it is what if the stories the computer came up with were uninteresting? One would have to have some metric to tell the computer what an “interesting” story is. That in and of itself is a difficult problem. Perhaps if the computer could just do more of the leg work to achieve the story ideas – that would be good enough. For example, if the developer put in some interesting story ideas (and they’d have to put in quite a lot of them) and the computer could effectively choose which one would best fit the situation, that would be a real breakthrough in artificial intelligence. Perhaps that’s what the Facade developers are going for, but from what I saw, they haven’t gotten there yet (and again, I haven’t gotten a chance to play the full game).

I’m planning on writing some thoughts on a Philip K. Dick novel adaptation next.

]]> By: Matt http://www.binarycreativity.com/2007/01/22/licensed-games-id-want-to-work-on-%e2%80%93-part-2-silence-of-the-lambs/#comment-101 Matt Wed, 31 Jan 2007 02:54:41 +0000 http://www.binarycreativity.com/2007/01/22/licensed-games-id-want-to-work-on-%e2%80%93-part-2-silence-of-the-lambs/#comment-101 I don't see why Silence of the Lambs has to be the exact same thing as the movie. Many licensed games deviate from following the storyline exactly. This can be for many reasons. Sometimes, the movie and the game are developed simultaneously and decreasing dependencies make it easier for both parties to work. Other times, it's to offer a unique experience – something more to fans of the original work. A good example is the Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay. That was probably a good thing they didn't base it on the movie, since the movie was quite ridiculous. In terms of a movie that is part mystery like Silence of the Lambs, rehashing the storyline would be a poor choice. The license offers good characters and a great dynamic between Hannibal and Clarice. That would be what we'd be licensing – not the plot to the Silence of the Lambs. The game play would be a detective game. Although there hasn't been a really good detective game that comes to mind, I think it can be done without resorting to pixel hunting or adventure game style item collection. Having a character (Hannibal) who can offer clues when the player is stuck is another good feature if the player gets stuck on the mystery themselves. I don’t see why Silence of the Lambs has to be the exact same thing as the movie. Many licensed games deviate from following the storyline exactly. This can be for many reasons. Sometimes, the movie and the game are developed simultaneously and decreasing dependencies make it easier for both parties to work. Other times, it’s to offer a unique experience – something more to fans of the original work. A good example is the Chronicles of Riddick: Escape from Butcher Bay. That was probably a good thing they didn’t base it on the movie, since the movie was quite ridiculous. In terms of a movie that is part mystery like Silence of the Lambs, rehashing the storyline would be a poor choice. The license offers good characters and a great dynamic between Hannibal and Clarice. That would be what we’d be licensing – not the plot to the Silence of the Lambs.

The game play would be a detective game. Although there hasn’t been a really good detective game that comes to mind, I think it can be done without resorting to pixel hunting or adventure game style item collection. Having a character (Hannibal) who can offer clues when the player is stuck is another good feature if the player gets stuck on the mystery themselves.

]]> By: Paul Skowronek http://www.binarycreativity.com/2007/01/22/licensed-games-id-want-to-work-on-%e2%80%93-part-2-silence-of-the-lambs/#comment-91 Paul Skowronek Fri, 26 Jan 2007 01:33:41 +0000 http://www.binarycreativity.com/2007/01/22/licensed-games-id-want-to-work-on-%e2%80%93-part-2-silence-of-the-lambs/#comment-91 I don't have anything too substantial to say (I agree with the concept generally and with Philip K. Dick emphatically); but I must say that I do not want games to spontaneously invent backstory. Ever. I don’t have anything too substantial to say (I agree with the concept generally and with Philip K. Dick emphatically); but I must say that I do not want games to spontaneously invent backstory. Ever.

]]> By: Kevin Hayden http://www.binarycreativity.com/2007/01/22/licensed-games-id-want-to-work-on-%e2%80%93-part-2-silence-of-the-lambs/#comment-90 Kevin Hayden Wed, 24 Jan 2007 16:08:36 +0000 http://www.binarycreativity.com/2007/01/22/licensed-games-id-want-to-work-on-%e2%80%93-part-2-silence-of-the-lambs/#comment-90 Ok, I'll bite. I think that Silence of the Lambs would possibly be the worst licensed game ever created. I know little bits of it (talking to Lecter, stumbling around in the dark inches Buffalo Bill) sound cool in theory, but overall, reading that post made me think: "WHAT'S THE GAME???" I know I'm going to come off like a patronizing dick, but I don't see much actual gameplay in that idea. I see no core nugget of activity/purpose/fun from which all experiences stem. What would be the core of the game? Talking to Lecter? Interesting, but if you've seen the movie, what would there be to learn from Hannibal? You already know who Buffalo Bill is. You already know where he lives, what he looks like, where the kidnapped girl is located. You've solved the case before you get past the Start screen. The same situation existed in the actual movie, but it was forgivable because it was a movie. It was fun watching cop and criminal on two slowly colliding paths, and knowing things that neither party knew about the other (yet) because you were a casual observer. Putting you in the (cheap) shoes of Clarice Starling runs the risk of being annoyingly frustrating because you already know everything. Examples: - Autopsy scene: You walk into the funeral home and have the urge to yell out "OK! There's a moth in this bitch's throat! ("How did you know that Starling?) That's not important now! Let's go to the bug geeks to find out what kind of moth it is! Oh wait! I already know what kind of moth it is! Screw those guys!" ^_^ - Buffalo Bill's house: You knock on his door, following a lead... but since you've seen the movie, you just kick the door down and put two bullets into his forehead because you're not falling for his bullshit. Open and shut case. Girl's in the basement. Game over. So yeah...Silence of the Lambs, worst licensed game ever...unless you change the storyline to make things surprising...and if you do that, you have bigger balls than King Kong, and you had better be sure that what you come up with is just as compelling as the novel's version, or you're in trouble. This article you've written though, it is a good meditation on future "player-to-AI interaction" in games. I'd love to see a system like what you've described in an *original* game. That would be awesome. ...But not Silence of the Lambs, man. That's like playing roulette with being labeled a literary rapist. -Kevin Ok, I’ll bite. I think that Silence of the Lambs would possibly be the worst licensed game ever created. I know little bits of it (talking to Lecter, stumbling around in the dark inches Buffalo Bill) sound cool in theory, but overall, reading that post made me think:

“WHAT’S THE GAME???”

I know I’m going to come off like a patronizing dick, but I don’t see much actual gameplay in that idea. I see no core nugget of activity/purpose/fun from which all experiences stem. What would be the core of the game? Talking to Lecter? Interesting, but if you’ve seen the movie, what would there be to learn from Hannibal? You already know who Buffalo Bill is. You already know where he lives, what he looks like, where the kidnapped girl is located. You’ve solved the case before you get past the Start screen.

The same situation existed in the actual movie, but it was forgivable because it was a movie. It was fun watching cop and criminal on two slowly colliding paths, and knowing things that neither party knew about the other (yet) because you were a casual observer. Putting you in the (cheap) shoes of Clarice Starling runs the risk of being annoyingly frustrating because you already know everything. Examples:

- Autopsy scene: You walk into the funeral home and have the urge to yell out “OK! There’s a moth in this bitch’s throat! (“How did you know that Starling?) That’s not important now! Let’s go to the bug geeks to find out what kind of moth it is! Oh wait! I already know what kind of moth it is! Screw those guys!” ^_^

- Buffalo Bill’s house: You knock on his door, following a lead… but since you’ve seen the movie, you just kick the door down and put two bullets into his forehead because you’re not falling for his bullshit. Open and shut case. Girl’s in the basement. Game over.

So yeah…Silence of the Lambs, worst licensed game ever…unless you change the storyline to make things surprising…and if you do that, you have bigger balls than King Kong, and you had better be sure that what you come up with is just as compelling as the novel’s version, or you’re in trouble.

This article you’ve written though, it is a good meditation on future “player-to-AI interaction” in games. I’d love to see a system like what you’ve described in an *original* game. That would be awesome. …But not Silence of the Lambs, man. That’s like playing roulette with being labeled a literary rapist.

-Kevin

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